Zibby Owens: Hi, Heather. Thanks for coming on "Moms Don't Have Time to Lose Weight."
Heather Cabot: Hi, Zibby. Thanks for having me.
Zibby: Thanks for coming on both my podcasts, I should say. This is great.
Heather: I'm very honored. It's so cool that I'm getting a chance to talk to you and interact with you, especially during this time. The fact that we even got to meet in person, that's actually really cool too.
Zibby: You are the only person I think I've met who I've interviewed because you were just in the neighborhood. I was like, come over. It worked out perfectly. I'm so glad for it. That was such a nice day.
Heather: Thank you. I thought so too. It was great.
Zibby: Heather, take me back and tell me about your journey in this world in your body and the biggest struggles and where you are today.
Heather: It's definitely been a lifelong struggle, for sure. I grew up in a very fitness-focused family. My dad was a college football player. My mom has always been very slim, some might say too slim at times. Honestly, it's defined my entire childhood, was really built around -- I don't want to completely blame my parents. I think they were socialized this way as well. They, through the years -- I'm fifty now. I think they’ve evolved a lot too. Although, they are still incredibly focused on health and fitness. They're in their seventies and still running. They actually just got a Peloton. Very much from a young age, being thin, being skinny was a real badge of honor in my family. I remember going to family gatherings and being tortured emotionally inside if someone didn't tell me that I looked thin. I remember having those feelings even at five or six. If grandma didn't say, oh, you look so thin, or you're getting so slim -- as you grow up, your body changes. I went through chubby stages. I went through other stages where maybe I was slimmer at times, like most kids. That's what happens as you grow. Your cheeks get chubby. Then you get slim. Then you grow a little bit. I was hypersensitive to a lot of that. As I said, I think a lot of my self-worth in many ways internally was really defined by that.
I started going to Weight Watchers when I was in high school. My younger sister and I, we were sort of pushed to go. All of those kinds of things defined my early years and into adulthood as well. The way I talk about it with my own daughter is, I feel like an incredible amount of my mental energy and emotional energy has gone towards being thin and trying to be thin and trying to fit a certain mode. I cannot even imagine what it's like now in this world of social media. I'm just thinking about growing up in the eighties and the nineties and being inundated with fashion magazines. Imagine today. You really can't get away from it. I struggle with that. I worry about that for my daughter and her friends. I feel like there's so many other things that we could all be spending time on besides worrying about what size we are. That bothers me. At the same time, just talking about the present -- I read the stories in The New York Times about -- I saw the one this weekend about people who are slightly overweight being at risk for COVID. It really freaked me out to the point that I actually looked up my BMI. I was like, oh, my gosh, I need to revise my goal. My newest number that I want to get down to is really different than what I had originally thought. Now I'm thinking maybe the overall purpose really isn't fitting into a smaller size pair of jeans. Maybe I should really be focusing on the overall health, which I know intellectually we should be focusing on, but it's hard. Anyway, I don't know if that's too much information about how I grew up.
It's something as a parent that I've really tried to be careful about. I remember taking my twins to one of their very, very first pediatrician appointments. I remember my pediatrician saying, "Do not ever talk about dieting in front of your kids. Do not talk about fat. Do not talk about weight loss. Talk about being healthy. Talk about being strong." I've really tried that. I have tried that. I really don't talk about -- probably only until recently when I've been trying to have more open conversations with my teens about healthy eating and those kinds of things, trying to open up to them about what I just said, about the amount of wasted mental energy I've spent on these superficial things that I think I've really taken away. I wish I could get that time back, to be honest with you. I'm glad you're doing this podcast. In terms of balance, I think it's important for people to also think about a bigger issue than just the vanity aspect of it. Believe me, I am vain, especially having worked in television. I want to look good too, but I think sometimes we need to step back from -- why are we really doing this? What's the real purpose? For me, I'm really trying to focus a lot on just being healthy, particularly in this environment today.
Zibby: I'm glad you brought up the New York Times article because I read that and I debated, should I post this to my group? Or will that scare them and make them feel desperate? Sometimes I feel like when you're under the gun it's harder. You might want to rebel. They might have the adverse reaction, but I think I might. It is a health issue. Being overweight, whatever that's defined as, is not that many pounds. [laughs] It's pretty easy to be overweight.
Heather: That’s the thing. This piece was talking about forty percent of Americans are overweight. If you go and look at your BMI -- I just did this. I work out. I work out a lot. I have always had a very healthy lifestyle. I haven't always been as thin as I would like to be, but I definitely have focused a lot on being healthy and eating healthy and, like I said, trying to model that for my kids. Even I, I was like, oh, my god, I'm at the top of the healthy. That’s not where I want to be because if I gain five pounds, I'm not going to be in the healthy BMI anymore. I want to be more towards the middle. I want to have the wiggle room. I don't want to be at the very top. Like I said, I kind of feel like, at least for me, what's motivating is the overall -- it maybe has to do with the fact that I just turned fifty and I'm thinking about the second half of my life and how I want my life to be. How I want my life to be is I want to be healthy. I want to be able to do things. I want to be able to be like my parents and still be out running and hiking and going to spin class and traveling the world. My parents just went to Antarctica last year and hiked. I want to be able to do all those things. I recognize that I have to make that investment now. If fixating on a BMI number is better than fixating on that pair of jeans or whatever, the dress I want to get into that I haven't been able to wear for five years, I'm just making that up, but I think maybe, for me, that might help me stay a little bit more disciplined, I hope. It's up and down in terms of my commitment. I know we've posted about that on Instagram.
Zibby: There's no easy answer to it. Whatever motivates you today may not be the thing that motivates you tomorrow. It's just how you get there and what frame of reference you need. We all need something a little bit different at different times. Then the worst part is feeling motivated or scared and not feeling like you necessarily have the tools or control to fix it. I think that's one thing in this whole eating struggle -- I hate all these words like battle and struggle, but it's true.
Heather: It's true.
Zibby: It can feel so out of control. I've had times where I'm like, I feel I'm in control of all of these different things. Why is this the one thing that I can't get under control and that is so visible to everybody else? I mean, not really, nobody cares but me. It's like you're a walking poster. I don't have this particular thing under control. It's embarrassing, I feel.
Heather: It's so funny that you say that because I remember when I -- I am also a mother of twins, like you. I remember right after I had the babies. I gained a lot of weight. We moved right after. We moved to Los Angeles. I was meeting all these new people. I remember saying to my husband that I felt like I had this sign on my -- I wanted to be able to explain to people why I looked the way I did because they didn't know that I just had twins. I'm meeting new people. It was the worst feeling. Let's be honest, I was also pregnant with twins when I was still on network television. How embarrassing is that? I did not think I looked beautiful at all. By the end of my pregnancy, the extra-larges didn't even fit me anymore. I literally had nothing to wear. [laughs]
Zibby: Extra-large, I couldn't even fit into -- I was wearing, basically, a sheet. I was so giant.
Heather: I mean extra-large maternity. I don't mean regular. I mean extra-large maternity. How amazing, all the amazing things your body can do? You just had twins. I just remember that same feeling. I wish I could tell people, I just had twins. Give me a little time. I'll get back to what I used to look like. I hated that feeling. That's how I feel now too a little bit.
Zibby: Then you realize that nobody really cares but you. They met you. They probably thought you were absolutely beautiful, which you are, and accomplished, which you are. They probably didn't think twice about it. To you, you want to telegraph that. At times, I know I've wanted to be like, it's possible I could be thinner, but is that what's really important? People don't care about that.
Heather: That's a thing I'm struggling with with a teenage daughter. I know exactly what she's going through, and not just my daughter, my son. Teens in general, it's just the phase they're going through. They're hyper-focused on what they look like. I wish I could listen to my own advice I'm trying to give them sometimes. There are so many more important things. It really is about being healthy. Sometimes we just get wrapped up in -- I also have a problem with perfectionism. Back to being out of control, I would say for myself, I have really struggled with, I hit my blue dots, or whatever it is. I've done it for five years, and then the one day I eat the cupcake or whatever it is, I'm like, the whole day's gone to shit. I might as well just eat whatever. It's really bad. That's when I lose control because I'm like, I fell off the wagon. I'm really struggling with, if that happens, what do I do now? I'm trying to track it. I'm trying to, the next day, get up and say, every day's a new day. It's a fresh start.
I'm trying to be the friend to myself that I wish that my kids were to themselves or their friends were to themselves when they mess up at different things, or just my own friends. I try to be that good friend to myself. I'm really working on that. I agree with you. It's hard. The other thing I was going to say as far as feeling out on control, I think we all have to recognize that, particularly with emotional eating, it really is something that is so deep-seated in our -- it's the way we dealt with emotions in our early years. It is self-soothing behavior. Different people have different vices. I think that it's hard to break. It's easy for people to say, have a cup of tea. When you're in that moment and you feel sad or guilty or angry, it's hard to mitigate those emotions at that exact moment. Then we all end up feeling guilty after, which is the part that I really hate. That's why I was saying try to be kind to yourself.
Zibby: I think that one of the things I've been realizing lately is that if you're already in that moment, it's almost too late. It's like you're on the edge of a cliff. Don't make yourself feel bad that you're now going to fall off. I think the point is not to get to the edge of the cliff. That's the only way to fix it because then you just beat yourself up for the fall, which is inevitable. You end up in the kitchen. You're exhausted. You've had a fight with somebody. Something's gone wrong. You're disappointed or you're angry or you're tired. You're all those things. Then there's something in front of you. You're going to just eat it. The only thing is to backtrack. How can I avoid being all those things, A, and how can I avoid having that thing on the counter?
Heather: For myself, I think the planning is really key to recognize that you are going to have those times. For me, it used to be, when we weren’t in this whole weird pandemic, but it used to be four or five o'clock after I'd gotten the kids home from school. We were sitting in the kitchen doing homework. I was supposed to be making dinner, but I was hungry because I probably didn't eat lunch. That was always a hard time for me, particularly if I was tired, if I didn't sleep well the night before. That's typically when, so planning ahead for those kinds of times when you know that your discipline is not going to be what you would hope it would be at those times, and also not making it worse. That falling off the cliff thing, a lot of times then we self-sabotage and make it even worse because we're like, I already messed up. That's hard. I think the planning is really good. I was never somebody that did the meal prep on Sundays. I have a lot of friends that are so good at that and shop for the week. I'm just not good at that. I'm trying to be better. We're also trying to be more plant based. I have been planning a little bit more and cooking different kinds of things and making sure I have some of those ingredients in the house, but I'm not really great at, Sunday, I'm going to make all these batches of things that we're going to eat all week. Plus, my family doesn't really like to eat like that either.
Zibby: That's okay. That doesn't work for me either.
Heather: I admire people who have the discipline to do that.
Zibby: Some things I think are easy, like making a big thing of oatmeal and having it last all week. I still haven't motivated to make my oatmeal for the week. Now every morning, I'm like, eh. Now it's almost noon, and I haven't eaten anything because I can't decide what to eat that's healthy. At this point, I'll just wait until lunch.
Heather: I did that today too, actually. It's funny. I made oatmeal for my husband. Then I left myself a little bit on the counter. Then I was like, why didn't I just make the whole thing for the rest of the week? We could've eaten it every day. Why did I just make enough for the two of us right now? It was kind of silly. I was also going to say, the other thing that I find really challenging -- I'm wondering if the community feels this way. I think we emailed about this a teeny bit. Because I've been focused on all of these things since I was a kid, I am so inundated and I am so often encouraged to try every fad. I've done Whole30. I've done Eat to Live. I'm back to doing Weight Watchers now because I do think that is the one thing that has really only ever truly worked for me. I think it's the accountability part of it. I like the app. I think it works well. I just was wondering if other people -- when we hit that four thirty or five o'clock in the afternoon time when I'm like, I'm starving or I'm tired or whatever, that's when all of these other diet trends start to really make me crazy. Well, I can't eat this because if I eat that, it's too many carbs, or it's this. I'm not supposed to be eating that. I don't know why, I almost feel like I get paralyzed.
Zibby: It's confusing. It's totally confusing. I feel like there should be one of those speed movie things of me throughout my life starting when I was ten looking at the label because every year or two, I'm looking at a different part of the label. A different part is really important. First it was calories. Then it was the fat. Then I'm doing Atkins. It's the alcohol sugar. Then it's the fiber for Weight Watchers. Then it's this. Now it's like, what are the ingredients? Now I'm not looking at it. I'm like, are they whole ingredients? Are they processed? It's just one thing after another. Our minds are just jutting from place to place to place. Where should I look? What is okay? What is not okay?
Heather: What's good? What's bad?
Zibby: What's good and what's bad? That implies there is a good and a bad and that everything is binary, black and white, which is of course not true. To have a well-rounded diet of things, we have to have a little of everything. The thing with Weight Watchers that I like -- this is by no means -- I'm doing my own whatever version of it based on my 2003 thing that was the last time anything worked for a long period of time, so my own points. When I have a list of foods that I'm like, these are the foods I want to eat, I mostly want to eat this anti-inflammatory food from the Mediterranean style because I like those foods. They're healthy. They're filling. I enjoy them. It's not like when I tried to do keto or some of these other things. I don't enjoy eating meat. Atkins isn't going to work. Then to have the points is only, for me at least, to take some of the emotion out. It's not bad. It's just like, okay, whoops, I spent six points on a big cookie. It's over. Moving on.
Heather: Then you can adjust later for what else you're eating later in the day. I think that's the tracking part of it that's -- whether you're writing it in a food journal or you're doing it on some type of app, whether it's Lose It! or Weight Watchers or any of these things. I do think the accountability piece, particularly for somebody like me who recognizes that I am a victim to stress-eating sometimes, that making myself accountable without driving myself crazy but just being mindful of what I'm eating -- even with my kids, it's funny, we talk about portion sizes. We do talk about that now. My kids will now look at the bag of popcorn or whatever, and we'll talk about what a serving size is as opposed to eating out of the bag, which I'm not saying I never do. I really try to pour myself a portion. Hopefully, they do that too so that you just have in the back of your mind what you're actually eating. It's so easy to just inhale whatever’s there when you're hungry, and even if it's the healthiest thing. I think that's problem. You can eat all the whole grains. You eat all the avocado, nuts.
I think that oftentimes when we think of -- this goes into the binary good or bad. When we think about healthy foods, not all of them are low calorie. It is easy to overeat them and not even realize that you're doing it. For myself too, instead of having one handful of nuts, have three handfuls of nuts and not even be realizing that's what you're eating, that is something that definitely contributes to weight gain. I also think that there's an aging component here. I'm not sure the demographics of the community. I will say for myself, it has become much more difficult to -- as I said, I've always been very active, but I feel like I have to try so much harder now to keep my weight in check. It's so frustrating. We're talking about solutions. My OBGYN last year said to me, I really have to add strength training not only for my metabolism, but also for healthy bones. I really am trying to do that. It's really not my favorite thing. I really like cardio. That's how I manage my stress. I will say that when I have focused on that, and I am really trying hard -- the last three or four weeks, I've been strength training three or four times a week in my garage.
Zibby: Wow, that's a lot.
Heather: My little Peloton, I have the bike, but I also have -- I'm doing all the classes on the app.
Zibby: Wait, so how often are you working out, then?
Heather: I work out pretty much every day. I do. Remember, I was telling you how I grew up. Just to give you a sense, my parents are marathon runners. They would go out on a fifteen-mile run on Saturday mornings. That was their time together. I'm not a good athlete, but I grew up in a very athletic family with a lot of focus on exercise. Frankly, I'm really blessed. The fact that it was part of my lifestyle, as much as as a kid I felt pressure, now I'm very thankful because that's the one thing I don't have to struggle with personally. I don't sleep as well when I don't exercise. I definitely need it. I'm actually an overexerciser. I get injured a lot because I don't know how to modify. I have been using the strength training classes on the Peloton app because I'm not going to the gym right now. It's been great. There are lots of different fitness apps, by the way. It doesn't have to be Peloton. This morning, I did a twenty-minute upper body and a twenty-minute lower body and a five-minute core right before I came on to talk to you. I feel good. I bought a few more dumbbells so I have some heavier weights. Again, that's a focus on health. I worry about falling. I worry about all these things as you get older. I want to make sure that I'm really strong. I'm trying to use that as a focus more than, as I said, the smaller pair of jeans, not that I don't want to wear the smaller of jeans, not that I won't be excited for a shopping trip in a few months. I am trying to focus on things that make me feel good too.
Zibby: You are not alone in the slow down and things getting harder. I hear this over and over and over again. I experience this myself. I'm forty-four. I'm already like, wait, it used to be that if I worked out, it just used to all be much easier. It's almost like a cruel joke. Here we are at a stage in our lives where we're dealing with our kids who are growing up and maybe our parents. There's just so much stress coming at us and caretaking needed on all sides, caretaking 360. We're trying to take care of ourselves. Then all of a sudden, somebody out there made it so that our bodies make it harder at this particular moment. It's like, seriously? [laughs]
Heather: It is really not fun. It is not. I'm a few years ahead of you. It is not fun.
Zibby: It's not hopeless.
Heather: No, it's not hopeless. I also was going to say, I think the other thing, too, is that I wish I had known earlier that this was going to happen. I never really knew because my mom is very tiny. Honestly, she's a size zero and has always been my entire life. I don't ever remember her being any other size. I could never share clothes with her. I should also say, I have two younger sisters who are also both size zeros. I'm the oldest of four. That was always really hard for me. I always had this impression of myself that I was a lot bigger than I am. I still do sometimes. Sometimes I have to remind myself that I'm not. I always felt like I was towering over everybody all the time, which is not a bad thing, but I just had that feeling. My point is that I never had this conversation with my mom about her suddenly needing to worry about her weight because she was always the opposite. I didn't really know. I wish I started thinking about strength training and some of these other things a little bit earlier.
The other thing I was going to say about overexercising, which maybe some of your community deal with, is I've gotten injured a lot. One of the things I've been trying to do is listen to my body and try to recognize when I'm getting to that point. What happens is when I get injured, then I can't exercise. I can't do the things I want to do. I tore a rotator cuff a few years ago. I have horrible Achilles tendinitis. I ran through pain. I ran a number of marathons. I did a couple of triathlons a few years ago. I ran through pain in the training, which you're not supposed to do. Now I really can't run anymore. When I was younger, I wish someone had said, hey, take it easy. Focus a little bit more on the healthy eating and portion control and all of that and not putting so much focus on so much intense exercise. That's one of the things I'm trying to deal with right now. How do I still get my exercise fix in in a way that is not creating inflammation or setting myself up for injury? As we age, that's really important. The strength training is, I don't want to get injured again. I really don't. I want to be really mindful of what I'm doing to keep myself healthy.
Zibby: There were so many good takeaways from this conversation, at least for me.
Heather: I hope so. I got to make sure it sinks in for me.
Zibby: I'm going to highlight a few that I noticed. One is to stop being punitive and that sometimes falling off the cliff and that late-night binge or whatever it is you do that you regret, you were set up for failure to begin with. The key is in figuring it out sooner than later. When you're in a full rational, levelheaded, non-emotional state, making a plan, making a plan for four thirty when you don't know what to eat and what label to look at. You know because earlier that day when you've been at your desk and feeling confident and calm, you made a plan for yourself, and so not waiting until the emotional mood strikes to try to figure it out. It's impossible. You're already on the tightrope, so figuring it out ahead of time as best you can, making at least one or two things that can last you all week even if it's something as simple as oatmeal. It will help. It will remind you of what you're doing. Being kind to your body and not overdoing it, and that overexercising at any age won't lead to anything good.
I think also being aware that you're born a certain way. You were born with a different body type than your sisters. I was born with a different body type even than my mother who's, by the way, also much tinier than I am. I can feel bad about that. I can try to get to a place that I want to be, but my body's not made that way. You know what? Maybe my body has other strengths. I'm really strong. Strength and muscle and all of that is important. People are built different ways, so not to beat yourself up and compare yourself to other people who are born with different body types. Trying to take the advice we give our kids. Trying to be kinder to ourselves. Trying to have more of a sense of peace. Also then to keep health above vanity to the extent that that's possible. Fueling our body. Eating to avoid pain. Eating for the long term. Fueling ourselves, not just feeding our feelings, essentially. Those are some of the things that I feel like I got out of it.
Heather: Good.
Zibby: Did you? Did you get those out of it? [laughs] I don't know.
Heather: Those are all the things that I'm really working on myself. Articulating them and actually saying them out loud versus just it being in my head, I think that's really helpful. Actually, recently -- I don't really do a lot of journaling even though I'm a writer. I don't do a lot of my own personal journaling, but I just bought a notebook yesterday. I do find that in my professional life, writing things down, making lists longhand really helps me. I was thinking yesterday, also because I'm thinking about some creative projects for the future too, but I thought it'd be really great to start writing things down for myself. I feel like that they would stick. Speaking them to other people, talking about them, in a way, I think it makes it real to actually put it out into the world, or you sit down and write it down. The last takeaway I would add to all of that that I know you've discussed in the community is that this is really a journey. It's so important to see it that way and recognize that there will ups and downs. It is very much like a marathon. There will be days when you feel invincible. There will be days when you feel like you can't take another step. You have to remind yourself that that's normal. That's how you do the work. I have to remind myself of that. I know that intellectually. I know that, but I feel that writing it down, talking about it, reminds me that I need to be honest with myself about that. This isn't going to be a quick fix. The extra weight that I want to take off, I put on over several years. It's going to take time to deal with that on many levels.
Zibby: Sometimes I'm like, what else do we have to do the next six months? We might as well have a long-term weight loss goal or fitness goal or whatever. Why not? Or we could not achieve anything.
Heather: I think you're right. Look, I think the mental anguish that so many people are feeling about just having to persevere, this situation that we're in and how we endure it and how we go on, separate from the pain and grief that people like you have felt who've had actual losses which in itself is, it's traumatizing. I think you have to be kind to yourself too with all of this. I was going to say, I feel like having a constructive goal, something to focus on, it at least helps me know that there will be an end to this.
Zibby: Agree.
Heather: It's the light at the end of the tunnel. Having some structure to my day and something positive that I feel like I can do in addition to everything else that I want to do, whether it's contributing to charity or voting, all the different things we can do to make us feel like we have some power in this time where we feel very powerless, I do think focusing on self-improvement, both internal and external, I think it's a good thing. It's a good way to spend this time. I totally agree with you. Hopefully, there'll be some healing that comes out of it.
Zibby: Totally. Let's do it. We got this.
Heather: We got this. What is the plan, that you're going to check in with the people like me over the next few months?
Zibby: Yes, we're just going to keep posting. You can use the community to help you. I was actually thinking of starting, one day a week we can all post a day of food. I could pair people up with accountability partners. I don't know. Just use it. Post in the comments. Hashtag in the stories. We'll share tips. We'll check in every Wednesday for the progress you're making. We're all going to do it together. We'll know we're doing it. The community's going to grow. We're all going to comment and contribute and encourage each other. Why not?
Heather: I think it's great. It's great on so many levels. Congratulations to you. If there's anything that I can help contribute to, let me know. I was thinking you should have at some point -- because I'm sure many people have teenage children or children in general. Something that I struggle with is when I'm trying to be very focused on my own weight loss goals or my own health goals, I don't want to influence my kids in a negative way like I was inadvertently. That's something that I would guess your community probably would want to talk about or know about. I'm sure there are people that specialize in child psychology and weight and all of that stuff, but I'd love some tips for, how do you do that so that you're making space for yourself to do what you need to do without making anybody feel under pressure, but at the same time modeling for them? Anyway, that's something I struggle with.
Zibby: That's a good idea. Maybe I'll do some interviews.
Heather: Later. You probably have enough people in the community that have interesting stories anyway.
Zibby: Yeah, but I can intersperse -- I think this should be for stories. Now I'm just rambling. Maybe in the posts, I can do quick tips from -- like a magazine article, almost.
Heather: Yeah. I don't know how you have time to do all this, but I'm excited for you to do it.
Zibby: I don't either. I don't know.
Heather: It's great. It's something for you to focus on that's positive. I'm so glad that you are doing it. I think it's great. It'll be really helpful to a lot of people. Thank you.
Zibby: Thank you. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for coming on the show. We'll keep in touch. Heather, we'll all be rooting for you in the community. Everybody, look for your comments in Instagram and everything. Know that you have a whole team of people rooting for you. You're not doing it alone.
Heather: Thank you. I'll be rooting for everybody else as well. Go team.
Zibby: Go team. [laughs] Bye.
Heather: Take care. Bye.
